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Post by Anthony on Nov 29, 2005 15:23:53 GMT -5
Have a take, don't suck...c'mon people!
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Post by terrible_taryn on Nov 29, 2005 16:56:23 GMT -5
Have a take, don't suck...c'mon people! heh oooooh anthony. if only it were friday already...
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benner087
New Member
"Who's gonna turn down a Junior Mint? It's chocolate, it's peppermint -- it's delicious!"
Posts: 26
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Post by benner087 on Nov 29, 2005 17:02:48 GMT -5
but this still brings us back to what anthony said. there must be a seperation of church and state. like i'm willing to bet every school pledges to the flag before school starts. but no one can force a student to say the pledge. People may not force students to take part in a prayer in school. For example a football coach cannot have a prayer said with all of his players before a game and force every and each one of them to take part in it.
you maybe forced to teach one thing in schools. but the kids still have many options and choices that they can choose from. just because they are being taught one thing does not mean they have to agree with it or follow it in their everyday life.
now i have not really followed this whole intelligent design thing but from what i can tell intelligent design states that there is a supreme being who was the creator of all life i guess. this may not necessarily be god, but there was one significant person (the creator) that designed our world (kind of like the matrix if that's your cup of tea). So like twiford said this is very similar to creationism. Creationism which is part of religion/church/the bible which has been decided to not be allowed in schools (unless it's a private school if i remember correctly).
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Post by John Warner on Dec 7, 2005 13:38:34 GMT -5
Remember one thing, nobody can make you believe anything, that's for you and you only to decide. People can try to coerce you by beating you into submission, excluding you from certain things and so on, or they can try to convince you through debate, dicussion, etc. Ultimately whatever it is you decide to believe in life is your choice, and one should know why they believe those certain things, anything less would be intellectual dishonesty.
When it comes to church and state in our country there are a lot of presumptions and notions about how these issues should be handled according to the law. When looking at the constitution no where do you find that church and state shall be completely seperate, I'll say it again: there is no such thing as seperation of church and state in the constitution. What we have is A seperation of the church and the state-language is everything. What it states is that congress cannot makes laws calling for a religion, a church if you will, to have power over the country. Meaning whatever the clergy say is law, however that does not mean you can take what the clergy say and equvilent to law. The purpose of the law was to keep the church from controlling the government, a blending of the two-becoming one church and religion. Remember also that Congress cannot stop us from believing and worshiping whatever we want either. The Law explicitly states congress, not all government. You are able to worship as you please, as are your congressmen, president, and other public servants. The Federal gov't cannot stop us from worshiping, nor can they tell us what or who to worship. We've come to many conclusions about how things are to be interperted because that's what we have been told to think, instead of looking at what really is.
In the case of schools and religion it comes down to money issues. Your public schools are being told and public servants being told that they cannot have anything to do with "religion" because they are funded by public dollars-federal money. What is ironic is that the federal government in the constitution largely stayed away from education, allowing states to work it out, but that is something more to talk about. There has been a movement to secularise the Federal gov't, and since they must be secular according to the law, then anything connected to them (i.e. funding) must do likewise. There is so much more to this issue than simple seperation of church and state. It would be foolish for a football coach to try and force is players to pray, but if he prays in the public setting how is he violating the law. He is not congress, congress did not make the law that the students must pray, and to the luthern God. It can be argued that by inhibiting the prayer that is abridging someones free speech and religious freedom, but of course it was also argued that others are being forced to participate in this religious rituals. My question is this: how is teaching about intelligent design violating the law, just where exactly does this come from that religion cannot in any way be used in the public setting. Is not the public setting supposed to be used for debate and free speech? An interesting note is that pretty much all of the founding fathers were educated in some way religiously or in biblical truths. Some were devout christians and others agnostic, if they saw our education system today in how we teach the future generation it would not be very recognizable to them. Don't shy away from debate, please. Share your thoughts and interpretations, spirited debates can be enjoyable.
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Post by pzearfoss on Dec 8, 2005 12:41:02 GMT -5
Whoah doggie:
Now from all that I know about evolution and intelligent design, I'd say that evolution is "how" process, but it can never be proven, hence "Theory of Evolution". What it does not do, that the "Theory of Intelligent Design" does, is ascribe any kind of causation to the process, except that of natural selection, which is simple enough to understand as "Big animal eats little animal".
Given that intelligent design inherently contains a "why" component, it belongs in philosophy class with some kind of classy title like "PHIL 214 - Origins of the Universe"
--out--
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scrappy
New Member
White hats...
Posts: 61
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Post by scrappy on Dec 11, 2005 15:06:25 GMT -5
Lets not forget the heart of the issue is that its being taught in PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL, which is MANDATORY. college and private schools can do what evert he eff they want.
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Post by John Warner on Apr 17, 2006 13:40:05 GMT -5
Just wanted to wish you guys good luck with WGI this weekend, hope you kick ass in Dayton.
If you were wondering, I haven't responded to the prompt because I couldn't access the web site for almost 3 months, now I don't have the time nor do I care about the debate anymore.
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scrappy
New Member
White hats...
Posts: 61
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Post by scrappy on Apr 17, 2006 14:40:25 GMT -5
thanks. <Other comments removed. AM>
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benner087
New Member
"Who's gonna turn down a Junior Mint? It's chocolate, it's peppermint -- it's delicious!"
Posts: 26
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Post by benner087 on Apr 17, 2006 15:43:12 GMT -5
thanks john
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Post by sfbluek on Apr 18, 2006 8:27:43 GMT -5
Thanks John. Kevin Horney thanks you too.
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scrappy
New Member
White hats...
Posts: 61
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Post by scrappy on Apr 19, 2006 8:52:53 GMT -5
HAHAHAHHA, Anty punked me! Boo.
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Post by cymbalsteve on May 2, 2006 10:50:05 GMT -5
W, what do you think of the "illegal aliens" going to protest?
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Post by John Warner on May 3, 2006 11:26:51 GMT -5
I don't know, not much I guess.
What do you think about it Steve?
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Post by cymbalsteve on May 3, 2006 11:45:03 GMT -5
This isn't "Steve speaks here"
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Post by John Warner on May 3, 2006 21:34:51 GMT -5
You're right Steve...and I'm saying that I want to hear your opinion.
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